[26/01/2011 19:15:42] weeknighttesting: Welcome to Week Night Testing session number 4
[26/01/2011 19:15:48] weeknighttesting: Please feel free to introduce yourself
[26/01/2011 19:15:56] weeknighttesting: I’m Darren McMillan, I’ll be facilitating this weeks session.
I blog at http://bettertesting.co.uk where I get the chance to share my experiences in software testing. I’m a father of a beautiful daughter & have some how managed to not scare away my other half Karen with my obsessions for all things testing
[26/01/2011 19:16:13] Mohinder Khosla: I am Mohinder from London
[26/01/2011 19:16:24] phil kirkham: phil kirkham, moderator of STC, blog at http://expectedresults.blogspot.com, ex-dev turned tester
[26/01/2011 19:16:34] vamshi: Hi all. I am vamshi from Hyderabad, India. I blog at prudenttesting.blogspot.com
[26/01/2011 19:16:50] sharath: Hi All My name is Sharath Byregowda. I blog at http://testtotester.blogspot.com. It’s been a while I have posted some thing on it, but will start posting soon
[26/01/2011 19:16:51] Ben Klaasen: Hi everyone, I’m Ben, I’ve been a tester since 1996. I blog at www.fluidlogic.org
[26/01/2011 19:17:11] Ben Klaasen: Checking out all your blogs…
[26/01/2011 19:17:43] phil kirkham: Hi Ben – that’s quite some time as a tester
[26/01/2011 19:17:52] *** weeknighttesting added Del Dewar ***
[26/01/2011 19:17:54] *** weeknighttesting added Adam Brown ***
[26/01/2011 19:18:02] weeknighttesting: Hi Del, Adam
[26/01/2011 19:18:05] Ben Klaasen: Heh heh and that doesn’t include all the years I
spent wasting my youth!
[26/01/2011 19:18:13] weeknighttesting: please feel free to introduce yourself
[26/01/2011 19:18:28] Lisa Crispin: hi, Lisa here, need to get with Mohinder to pair
[26/01/2011 19:18:34] Adam Brown: Hi everyone
[26/01/2011 19:18:39] Mohinder Khosla: Hi Lisa
[26/01/2011 19:18:41] Ben Klaasen: Hi Lisa!
[26/01/2011 19:18:45] richardjameshill: Hi
[26/01/2011 19:19:15] weeknighttesting: Good turn out tonight, thanks everyone, still more to come no doubt
[26/01/2011 19:19:15] Ben Klaasen: Thanks for organising this session, Darren.
[26/01/2011 19:19:16] Adam Yuret: Hi everybody, my name is Adam Yuret I am a remote agile “army of one” tester for a SF bay area non-profit www.volunteermatch.org based currently in Seattle. My blog can be found at www.contextdrivenagility.com and am @AdamYuret on twitter.
[26/01/2011 19:19:18] phil kirkham: is that Adam of the Boast Club ?
[26/01/2011 19:19:27] Adam Yuret: Here for “Lunchtime testing”
[26/01/2011 19:19:28] weeknighttesting: keep going with the intro’s I’ll post the
[26/01/2011 19:19:35] weeknighttesting: thanks Ben
[26/01/2011 19:19:38] Adam Yuret: Ha, yes, I am the boaster.
[26/01/2011 19:19:42] Lisa Crispin: hey Adam, glad to see another lunchtime tester!
[26/01/2011 19:19:57] weeknighttesting: Mission:
This week we’ll be trying something a little different.
I’ve been working with my fictional company CRM-R-US trying to develop some initial requirements for a new piece of functionality that we think will win us a lot of business. It’s been hard work, and having to deal with management and sales chipping in every few minutes has been stressful, I’ll not pretend it’s not been.
So to say I’ve been under pressure to get these requirements out is an understatement.
Anyway to cut a long story short, CRM-R-US will be looking at integrating their product with Twitter. You can find out more about all this in the requirements I’ve wrote up.
You can find those requirements here: http://www.bettertesting.co.uk/content/?page_id=839
As testers the mission for you tonight will be to provide feedback on those initial requirements. Identify gaps, issues, risks. If you want to help even more suggestion for improvement would certainly make me look good!
Thank you, hopefully they’ll still want me around come Monday
As usual feel free to pair or group test with a few people. Mind mapping might prove useful. http://typewith.me/ is also very good for sharing a notepad with other parties.
As the requirements are quite large you may prefer to focus only on a section or two of them.
I’m available for meetings being your only available stakeholder at this point. If you’d like to ask me any questions about these requirements please book a five minute slot in my diary. Just put you’re name next to a time slot & message me when you’re ready to chat via Skype. You can access this here http://typewith.me/1BAB8CRfR1
[26/01/2011 19:20:01] Adam Yuret: Haha, Hey Lisa.
[26/01/2011 19:20:15] richardjameshill: Boast club. We used to stand on a fence every year and boast what we are going to do the next year.
[26/01/2011 19:20:25] richardjameshill: Was fun
[26/01/2011 19:21:10] Lisa Crispin: interesting mission
[26/01/2011 19:21:28] weeknighttesting: thanks Lisa hopefully you can help keep me in a job
[26/01/2011 19:21:42] Lisa Crispin:
[26/01/2011 19:22:37] Adam Brown: Good stuff. Glad to see another company reaching out and embracing social media!
[26/01/2011 19:22:39] Adam Yuret: yeah looks like fun and a nice change of pace from the “here’s a software, test it” mission.
[26/01/2011 19:23:20] Adam Yuret: Isn’t it 7:23 there already?
[26/01/2011 19:23:20] sharath: interesting mission Darren
[26/01/2011 19:23:34] weeknighttesting: yup 7:23 on my end
[26/01/2011 19:23:36] Adam Yuret: I see now, just curious why there were options in the diary for pre-7:23
[26/01/2011 19:23:39] Ben Klaasen: I’ve just updated the typewith.me page with the session start timer
[26/01/2011 19:23:50] weeknighttesting: cool thanks Ben
[26/01/2011 19:24:02] Lisa Crispin: are we all supposed to be using typewith.me? Mohinder and I are pairing with TeamViewer
[26/01/2011 19:24:17] weeknighttesting: feel free to pair up you might need the extra help
[26/01/2011 19:24:30] Adam Yuret: Typewith.me is where the diary is located to book time, AFAIK.
[26/01/2011 19:24:33] weeknighttesting: I need any help I can get to keep me in employment just now.. no pressure
[26/01/2011 19:24:57] Lisa Crispin: I have to say I have a frail hold on what ‘CRM’ really means.
[26/01/2011 19:25:06] weeknighttesting: sure no problem
[26/01/2011 19:25:21] Del Dewar: Customer Relationship Management
[26/01/2011 19:25:30] *** weeknighttesting added Anand Ramdeo ***
[26/01/2011 19:25:33] Adam Yuret: AM I right to assume you mean “Customer
[26/01/2011 19:25:46] weeknighttesting: Welcome Anand, mission pasted in private
[26/01/2011 19:26:13] Ben Klaasen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_relationship_management
[26/01/2011 19:26:13] Anand Ramdeo: In private?? Thats the first time
[26/01/2011 19:26:36 | Edited 19:26:43] weeknighttesting: yeh some started 10 mins early
[26/01/2011 19:26:50] Lisa Crispin: Thanks, I know what CRM stands for but not what it really MEANS< will look at the wikipedia link
[26/01/2011 19:27:00] weeknighttesting: yes the wiki link Ben pasted explains it
[26/01/2011 19:27:19] Lisa Crispin: we evidently do not try to manage our customer relationships here at my company! Or at least, we don’t use that term
[26/01/2011 19:27:21] Adam Yuret: Yeah, I just meant that to expand, mmaybe Darren can explain to us what it means in *his* context.
[26/01/2011 19:27:24] Adam Yuret: ?
[26/01/2011 19:28:07] Lisa Crispin: oh, there’s even a link in Darren’s page
[26/01/2011 19:28:08] Lisa Crispin: doh
[26/01/2011 19:28:11] Del Dewar: An example – TV broadcasters with subscription or PPV content will have a CRM that contains customer details (personal & subs) which is normally operated by ‘agents’ . The customers generally talk to the agents who operate the CRM GUI
[26/01/2011 19:28:22] weeknighttesting: thanks Del
[26/01/2011 19:28:42] Adam Brown: Profile 1″the product must link to multiple twitter accounts”. Profile 2. “A single twitter account will link to a profile within the product”
[26/01/2011 19:28:52] weeknighttesting: basically the software people on the other end of the phone use while talking to you
[26/01/2011 19:28:55] Adam Brown: cane multiple accounts link to the same profile?
[26/01/2011 19:29:06] Adam Brown: can*
[26/01/2011 19:29:14] Adam Yuret: Please define “link” with regard to the twitter functionality?
[26/01/2011 19:29:28] Adam Yuret: Should I ask these questions here or save them for my appointment with the PO?
[26/01/2011 19:29:28] weeknighttesting: A Link would be a URL
[26/01/2011 19:29:29] Anand Ramdeo: Okay – just gone through the mission – good job Darren.
[26/01/2011 19:29:37] richardjameshill: How many accounts is the max and are they all linking simutanously
[26/01/2011 19:29:40] weeknighttesting: thanks Anand
[26/01/2011 19:30:04] weeknighttesting: I’ll have to refer you all to booking a meeting please
[26/01/2011 19:30:16] Anand Ramdeo: Any one would like to do pair testing?
[26/01/2011 19:30:16] Adam Yuret: “The product must be able to link to multiple different twitter accounts” So you mean be able to tweet a hyperlink? or send tweets containing hyperlinks?
[26/01/2011 19:30:18] weeknighttesting: I’m a very busy and stressed BA at the moment
[26/01/2011 19:30:43] weeknighttesting: I still have to write requirements for another feature they have me working on, likely I’ll be working over the weekend on it too
[26/01/2011 19:31:01] weeknighttesting: so meetings would be best to manage this
[26/01/2011 19:31:18] weeknighttesting: you can book me for 5 mins at a time here http://typewith.me/1BAB8CRfR1
[26/01/2011 19:31:37] Lisa Crispin: this is hard (whine)
[26/01/2011 19:31:41] weeknighttesting: Contact sent to the group
[26/01/2011 19:31:51] *** weeknighttesting added Rakesh Reddy ***
[26/01/2011 19:31:59] Lisa Crispin: I don’t get this meeting thing weeknighttesting is talking about
[26/01/2011 19:32:17] weeknighttesting: Welcome Rakesh, mission sent in private
[26/01/2011 19:32:21] Adam Yuret: bbs, duty calls
[26/01/2011 19:32:43] sharath: Darren can u please give me more info on profile 1
[26/01/2011 19:32:58] weeknighttesting: Sure Lisa, put your name next to a time slot and you can ask me any questions
[26/01/2011 19:33:04] phil kirkham: @lisa if you want to ask questions you have to book a meeting is what I think weeknighttesting means
[26/01/2011 19:33:15] Lisa Crispin: oh!
[26/01/2011 19:33:19] weeknighttesting: I’ll respond with what I know and perhaps might be able to provide other insights
[26/01/2011 19:33:43] sharath: [26 January 2011 19:32] sharath:
<<< Darren can u please give me more info on profile 1 and 2
[26/01/2011 19:34:44] weeknighttesting: I’m happy to expand on requirement here sure
[26/01/2011 19:34:50] Del Dewar: he he. loving the frustrated BA act. Top hole, old chap.
[26/01/2011 19:35:41] Lisa Crispin: Darren,have you got any examples to go with the requirements?
[26/01/2011 19:35:48] weeknighttesting: Profile 01 The product must be able to link to multiple different twitter accounts.
In other words when I enter the dashboard I must be able to add a twitter account to link with CRM-R-US.
Upon doing so I can access the dashboard to see a presence profile dashboard view for that twitter account
[26/01/2011 19:37:09] weeknighttesting: Profile 02 A single twitter account will link to a profile within the product
In other words, a profile is CRM-R-US view of a twitter account, you can have as many profiles as you like, but each can only link to one twitter account
[26/01/2011 19:37:28] weeknighttesting: thats a good question Lisa, I think you should book a meeting with me just now
[26/01/2011 19:37:28] sharath: if u have some mock up screens it would be very helpfu;
[26/01/2011 19:37:44] weeknighttesting: likewise sharath feel free to book a meeting
[26/01/2011 19:37:57] Ben Klaasen: Yeah wireframes are essential
[26/01/2011 19:38:12] richardjameshill: Are there any non functional requirements you think may be important now?
[26/01/2011 19:38:15] weeknighttesting: I don’t have any wireframes at present
[26/01/2011 19:38:43] phil kirkham: why are wireframes and screens needed ? isnt the mission to test the requirements ?
[26/01/2011 19:39:03] weeknighttesting: [19:38:12] richardjameshill: Are there any non functional requirements you think may be important now?
Haven’t got that far yet
[26/01/2011 19:39:09] Ben Klaasen: The requirements reference UI objects – lists, screens…
[26/01/2011 19:39:22] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 19:38] phil kirkham:
<<< why are wireframes and screens needed ? isnt the mission to test the requirements ?
[26/01/2011 19:39:35] weeknighttesting: good point Phil
[26/01/2011 19:40:08] *** weeknighttesting added Brian Osman ***
[26/01/2011 19:40:18] weeknighttesting: Welcome Brian
[26/01/2011 19:40:49 | Edited 19:40:56] richardjameshill: I’d like some figures , what units are you measuring in ? Reports- Following 01
[26/01/2011 19:41:03] richardjameshill: Are we metric?
[26/01/2011 19:41:07] sharath: Wireframes would have helped us get familarized with the app quickly
[26/01/2011 19:41:45] Adam Brown: i agree. but we’re testing the requirments, not the app
[26/01/2011 19:41:50] *** weeknighttesting added Mike Scott ***
[26/01/2011 19:41:58] weeknighttesting: Welcome Mike
[26/01/2011 19:42:05] Adam Yuret: Wireframes help testers and engineers visualize the requirements.
[26/01/2011 19:42:30] phil kirkham: the app is in the spec stage – are you testing flow and usablity ? or are we finding if there are gaps and risks before we even start building ?
[26/01/2011 19:42:45] Ben Klaasen: Campaigns are the meat of this app
[26/01/2011 19:43:07] richardjameshill: How are the graphs rendered?
[26/01/2011 19:43:25] Ben Klaasen: …and what’s MoSCoW?
[26/01/2011 19:43:27] richardjameshill: piechart, line,..
[26/01/2011 19:43:32] *** weeknighttesting added Prem R ***
[26/01/2011 19:43:38] richardjameshill: histogram
[26/01/2011 19:43:43] weeknighttesting: welcome mission pasted in private
[26/01/2011 19:43:54] phil kirkham: Must have Should Have Could Have = MoSCow
[26/01/2011 19:44:12] Ben Klaasen: Nice one – never heard that before!”
[26/01/2011 19:44:12] phil kirkham: a way of defining the importance of the
[26/01/2011 19:44:15] Del Dewar: MoSCoW – Prioritisation – Must/Should/Could/Won’t
[26/01/2011 19:44:16] Ben Klaasen: Gotcha
[26/01/2011 19:44:28] Adam Brown: I’m a bit confused by the in scope and out of scope requirments. If they’re out of scope, surely they’re not needed in the specification?
[26/01/2011 19:44:56] weeknighttesting: we have more than one release planned, this is only a first draft of our intial scope
[26/01/2011 19:45:04] weeknighttesting: may more be added, descoped
[26/01/2011 19:45:22] richardjameshill: Id like to know what langauges and charecter sets are supported
[26/01/2011 19:45:39] Adam Yuret: Okay, sorry for that, the place that pays me for testing beckoned.
[26/01/2011 19:45:52] weeknighttesting: has anyone used a mind map yet would be useful to generate you’re ideas, questions
[26/01/2011 19:46:24] Lisa Crispin: Mohinder and I are doing a mind map
[26/01/2011 19:46:48] Lisa Crispin: though it is hard to know what to recommend – I assume Darren is stuck with this old school type requirements doc? And can’t use more graphical representations, personas, that sort of thing?
[26/01/2011 19:46:54] weeknighttesting: our product support Italian, German, English at the moment Richard, I dunno about the char sets I’d have to look into it
[26/01/2011 19:47:14] Ben Klaasen: Regarding keywords – what’s the time limit on keywords?
[26/01/2011 19:47:14] richardjameshill: Danke
[26/01/2011 19:47:20] weeknighttesting: I have a meeting in 5 mins with Lisa
[26/01/2011 19:47:30] Adam Yuret: Starting a mind-map now, I’m very new to the mindmapping process.
[26/01/2011 19:47:38] Anand Ramdeo: I am also doing the mindmap and finding it
much easier to frame ideas / questions
[26/01/2011 19:47:41] weeknighttesting: if you want to book me goto http://typewith.me/1BAB8CRfR1
[26/01/2011 19:47:51] weeknighttesting: I should be able to do two at a time
[26/01/2011 19:47:52] Lisa Crispin: I booked it ok, but not sure how to actually have the meeting?
[26/01/2011 19:48:21] weeknighttesting: Invite me to a discussion via skype with your pair
[26/01/2011 19:48:24] weeknighttesting: or yourself
[26/01/2011 19:49:06] weeknighttesting: Nearly 40 mins left
[26/01/2011 19:50:48] tonybruceuk: Evening all, I think I’m cursed, never get home in time for WNT when it’s on.
[26/01/2011 19:51:43] Lisa Crispin: how do we ‘meet’, Adam?
[26/01/2011 19:52:08] phil kirkham: @Tony transport problems or weekday testing problems ?
[26/01/2011 19:52:26] Adam Brown: which Adam?
[26/01/2011 19:52:53] Adam Yuret: Let’s call me AdamY
[26/01/2011 19:53:15] tonybruceuk: Transport, standing at the coach stop for an hour, don’t let me interrupt, I’m going to ‘go dark’ and read up on what’s goin on.
[26/01/2011 19:53:46] Lisa Crispin: I keep saying ‘Adam’ when I mean ‘Darren’, I don’t know what is wrong with me
[26/01/2011 19:53:58] weeknighttesting:
[26/01/2011 19:54:00] Adam Brown: lol. whoops!
[26/01/2011 19:54:23] Adam Yuret: It’s okay, I get that a lot.
[26/01/2011 19:55:23] Adam Brown: i got called Steve once by client. didn’t have the
guts to correct him and it stuck for about 2 years after that!
[26/01/2011 19:55:25] Ben Klaasen: Presence 07 is problematic to me
[26/01/2011 19:56:02] richardjameshill: “or responses to tweets”
[26/01/2011 19:56:04] Adam Brown: @ben the wording is a bit iffy isn’t it
[26/01/2011 19:56:07] Adam Brown: An option should be available to sort the message / reply display to be ordered by oldest un-replied messages or responses to tweets
[26/01/2011 19:56:19] sharath: I want to know if notes like this is of any value? or are you looking for anything else? Reports-UI 01 A UI will be available from which you can launch report
- Is report a window? or a web page? or some thing else?
- Will u double click or single click to launch the report?
- is there any other way to launch the report if the UI is blocked or minimized?
- time taken to launch the report?
- wht if the application is viewed on a hand held or a mobile phone? will the report re-size as per the screen?
[26/01/2011 19:57:02] Brian Osman: The campaign engine is the key as CEO has buy in but…
[26/01/2011 19:57:52] Brian Osman: There dependencies such as the skills matching algorithm – when will THAT be developed?
[26/01/2011 19:58:31] Brian Osman: What calendar will the campaign engine access? -Is it standard or customised?
[26/01/2011 19:58:43] phil kirkham: @sharath – is double or single click a risk or issue at the moment ? useful for testing but is i something that is important at this mioment ?
[26/01/2011 19:58:57] tonybruceuk: For a small company these guys love to sign things off.
[26/01/2011 19:59:21] sharath: @phil – Iam not sure…thts y Iam asking
[26/01/2011 19:59:32] sharath: I am confused on the mission
[26/01/2011 19:59:48] Brian Osman: Multiple campaigns can be run – how many at one time I wonder?
[26/01/2011 20:00:22] Adam Brown: Presence 08 – if a new list is followed, I can’t see why this would be need to be marked to the agents attention as they are the one that has just clicked “follow”.
[26/01/2011 20:00:22] phil kirkham: @sharath Brian seems to be asking some good questions – if the campaign engine AI has yet to be developed then isn;t the whole project at risk ?
[26/01/2011 20:00:23] Brian Osman: Actually, what IS meant by a ‘campaign’?
[26/01/2011 20:00:44] Adam Brown: it would be like “Attention! you have just click
[26/01/2011 20:00:48 | Edited 20:01:05] weeknighttesting: Mission: As testers the mission for you tonight will be to provide feedback on those initial requirements. Identify gaps, issues, risks. If you want to help even more suggestions for improvement would certainly make me look good!
[26/01/2011 20:01:49] Brian Osman: @phil kirikham – that seems to be a huge risk as the section calls the campaign engine a “vision” – hmmm – business speak for I have an idea but…
[26/01/2011 20:02:39] Adam Brown: one suggestion would be to allow scheduled tweets (similar to tweetdeck) so that you can still target over seas customers whilst your agents are in bed
[26/01/2011 20:03:09] Brian Osman: If the skills matching algorithm is incomplete then the targetted campaigns will be misleading? no?
[26/01/2011 20:03:34] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:01] Brian Osman:
<<< @phil kirikham – that seems to be a huge risk as the section calls the campaign engine a “vision” – hmmm – business speak for I have an idea but…
[26/01/2011 20:03:44] Brian Osman: So how are the skills captured – what is teh process and how is it fed into the algorithm – (that is yet to be developed?)
[26/01/2011 20:03:47] richardjameshill: How does this software make money?
[26/01/2011 20:04:13] Brian Osman: @richardjameshill – good question!
[26/01/2011 20:04:15] weeknighttesting: we sell it for millions to call centers worldwide
[26/01/2011 20:04:21] tonybruceuk: I’ve only skimmed through but what’s this thing do?
[26/01/2011 20:04:23] Brian Osman: ah ha!
[26/01/2011 20:05:17] Brian Osman: @tonybruceuk – i might off base here but targetted marketing campaighn tweets
[26/01/2011 20:05:49] Brian Osman: But if so, where do the companies get there ‘followers’ from?
[26/01/2011 20:06:00] weeknighttesting: Our leads engine
[26/01/2011 20:06:04] Brian Osman: their
[26/01/2011 20:06:07] Brian Osman: oh…
[26/01/2011 20:06:15] Brian Osman: i forgot about that ;D
[26/01/2011 20:06:40] richardjameshill: and why do the leads “add” us
[26/01/2011 20:07:19] Prem R: Have there been discussion on non-function reqts?
[26/01/2011 20:07:32] weeknighttesting: we have no non-functional req yet
[26/01/2011 20:07:35] Brian Osman: Leads list 03 – whats ‘An intelligent mechanism’?
[26/01/2011 20:07:50] richardjameshill: Are there any estimates on conversion rate? How much data do we need to present to our users
[26/01/2011 20:07:51] phil kirkham: @richard I woudln’t follow a corporate tweeter…
[26/01/2011 20:07:52] Brian Osman: @Prem R – I don’t think so
[26/01/2011 20:08:15] tonybruceuk: This system legal?
[26/01/2011 20:08:18] weeknighttesting: Brian an intelligent mechanism is something technical that the developer will be able to work out. I’m only a BA
[26/01/2011 20:08:21] Brian Osman: @phil kirikham @richard – in this case i wouldn’t
[26/01/2011 20:08:32] Adam Yuret: Family emergency, gotta run. I’ll catch up when I Get back.
[26/01/2011 20:08:57] Brian Osman: @weeknighttesting – how do i know that what the devs have done is ‘intelligent’????
[26/01/2011 20:08:58] sharath: wht’s in it for me if i follow ?
[26/01/2011 20:09:02] Brian Osman:
[26/01/2011 20:09:29] Ben Klaasen: The expectation of intelligent tweets!
[26/01/2011 20:09:37] Ben Klaasen: Not just corporate pimping
[26/01/2011 20:09:40] Ben Klaasen:
[26/01/2011 20:10:02] phil kirkham: how many of these top 10 risks does this
potentially have ? http://www.movements.org/blog/entry/top-10-twitter-campaign-mistakes/
[26/01/2011 20:10:18] Adam Brown: Which operating system will this be running on? Does it need specific versions of applications such as .NET framework for example?
[26/01/2011 20:10:21] Brian Osman: @sharath – IF this is marketing then after awhile wouldn’t the tweets end up being like spam?
[26/01/2011 20:10:42] Ben Klaasen: Shouldn’t have to care about OS or implementation at this stage
[26/01/2011 20:10:57] tonybruceuk: This is going to be the most confusing and unusable interface if they can actually get something thrown together
[26/01/2011 20:11:00] richardjameshill: cos twitter is realtime, this runs 24/7?
[26/01/2011 20:11:07] weeknighttesting: sorry struggling with meetings & this chat at same time
[26/01/2011 20:11:14] sharath: @bjosman – very much
[26/01/2011 20:11:26] Adam Brown: @ben – Why?
[26/01/2011 20:12:00] Brian Osman: @ben – are you assuming that the technical will be fleshed out later?
[26/01/2011 20:12:24] sharath: [26 January 2011 20:10] phil kirkham:
<<< how many of these top 10 risks does this potentially have ? http://www.movements.org/blog/entry/top-10-twitter-campaign-mistakes/
[26/01/2011 20:12:27] phil kirkham: @richard The BBC processes 90 million tweets a day…
[26/01/2011 20:12:35] Ben Klaasen: Mockup of the presence screen: http://www.flickr.com/photos/benklaasen/5390590717/
[26/01/2011 20:13:14] Ben Klaasen: Contains almost every requiement on that screen on just one pass
[26/01/2011 20:13:19] Prem R: While this doc is called a BRD, the tone seems more like an SRS – focus on system realization
[26/01/2011 20:14:06] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:10] phil kirkham:
<<< how many of these top 10 risks does this potentially have ? http://www.movements.org/blog/entry/top-10-twitter-campaign-mistakes/Nice!
[26/01/2011 20:14:35] Prem R: Which are the roles (consumers) at play here
[26/01/2011 20:14:46] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:10] Adam Brown:
<<< Which operating system will this be running on? Does it need specific versions of applications such as .NET framework for example?It’s a web app, running off an application developed in java
[26/01/2011 20:14:47] Lisa Crispin: is there some kind of standard Twitter API this will use? Or does it matter?
[26/01/2011 20:14:50] tonybruceuk: What happened to the Moscow prioritisation?
[26/01/2011 20:14:54] Brian Osman: Based on the mock up and leads – list 05,06 and similar, can i assume there will be sufficient real estate on screen for the lists to be displayed?
[26/01/2011 20:15:03] Ben Klaasen: Yeah, it’d use the Twitter API
[26/01/2011 20:15:07] tonybruceuk: Sorry if I’m repeating questions
[26/01/2011 20:15:08] sharath: A 2-3 min search in google I see a lot of CRM’s claiming to do what your application might be capable of. So how will this be different compared to those ones?
[26/01/2011 20:15:17] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:14] Lisa Crispin:
<<< is there some kind of standard Twitter API this will use? Or does it matter?We will use whatever API’s twitter provides at the time of implementation
[26/01/2011 20:15:22] Lisa Crispin: that’s a good question, Sharath
[26/01/2011 20:15:27] richardjameshill: If its moscow ,then needs to handle russian letters
[26/01/2011 20:15:33] Lisa Crispin: ok, so Twitter does provide that – I just don’t know anything about it
[26/01/2011 20:15:37] Lisa Crispin: what IS moscow
[26/01/2011 20:15:40] phil kirkham: there something called a Twitter Firehose – seee http://skillsmatter.com/podcast/ajax-ria/processing-tweets-at-the-bbc-1848/zx-486 if you want to know how real corps handle Twitter
[26/01/2011 20:15:50] tonybruceuk: [19:44:14 BST] Del Dewar: MoSCoW – Prioritisation – Must/Should/Could/Won’t
[26/01/2011 20:15:51] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:14] Prem R:
<<< Which are the roles (consumers) at play herenot sure I understand
[26/01/2011 20:15:54] weeknighttesting: 15mins left
[26/01/2011 20:16:02] Ben Klaasen: Lisa, that’s what made Twitter so exciting – they provide APIs anyone can use to build a Twitter app.
[26/01/2011 20:16:06] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:14] tonybruceuk:
<<< What happened to the Moscow prioritisation?:)
[26/01/2011 20:16:22] tonybruceuk: The only thing prioritised is out of scope.
[26/01/2011 20:16:25] Mike Scott: Hi Darren what account do I call to meet?
[26/01/2011 20:16:28] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:14] Brian Osman:
<<< Based on the mock up and leads – list 05,06 and similar, can i assume there will be sufficient real estate on screen for the lists to be displayed?We’ll provide wireframes at a later date
[26/01/2011 20:16:38] Brian Osman: @sharath – good question – just sis the same search – WHAT makes it different? Costs? Features? Integration??
[26/01/2011 20:16:47] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:15] sharath:
<<< A 2-3 min search in google I see a lot of CRM’s claiming to do what your application might be capable of. So how will this be different compared to those ones?:)
[26/01/2011 20:17:17] Lisa Crispin: It kinda bums me out to think of people using Twitter for marketing, but I guess they do already
[26/01/2011 20:17:31] tonybruceuk: Is this requirement for a couple of different things? The bit about vision from the head of sales, that something different?
[26/01/2011 20:17:32] Ben Klaasen: Me too
[26/01/2011 20:17:34] Lisa Crispin: It seems like Twitter will become unusable at some point because I just can’t follow so many people
[26/01/2011 20:17:45] Adam Brown: @weeknighttesting Thanks. So it shouldn’t really make a difference which OS it runs on in that case. Compatibility between browsers has to be taken in to consideration when testing though. Are these defined anywhere?
[26/01/2011 20:18:09] phil kirkham: [26 January 2011 20:16] Ben Klaasen:
<<< Lisa, that’s what made Twitter so exciting – they provide APIs anyone can use to build a Twitter app.and also a risk – we’re dependent on a 3rd party API that may change…
[26/01/2011 20:18:26] Prem R: My question was are the CC agents the only users of this app?
[26/01/2011 20:18:33] Brian Osman: @lisa – I guess thats what I getting at – the agent *might* be overwhelmed (assuming app generates enough leads/followers)
[26/01/2011 20:18:38 | Edited 20:18:48] richardjameshill: What format are reports in? – Office 2003# will be supported?
[26/01/2011 20:18:48] tonybruceuk: ‘This can be via a tweet to a user not currently followed’ that something that can be done?
[26/01/2011 20:18:56] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:17] Adam Brown:
<<< @weeknighttesting Thanks. So it shouldn’t really make a difference which OS it runs on in that case. Compatibility between browsers has to be taken in to consideration when testing though. Are these defined anywhere?:)
[26/01/2011 20:19:12] tonybruceuk: ‘Options will be customizable’ heh, well thats nice n detailed.
[26/01/2011 20:19:24] Prem R: Trying to switch between a work call and WNT – need to plan this better next time
[26/01/2011 20:19:30] Brian Osman: @adam brown – good question – what browsers are ‘in scope’?
[26/01/2011 20:19:38] weeknighttesting: we will be using Jasper Reports most likely for our reports
[26/01/2011 20:19:45] Lisa Crispin: ugh
[26/01/2011 20:19:52] tonybruceuk: Oh no, I was wrong, there is some stuff prioritised.
[26/01/2011 20:19:56] Lisa Crispin: jasper reports are evil
[26/01/2011 20:19:57] phil kirkham: [26 January 2011 20:18] tonybruceuk:
<<< ‘This can be via a tweet to a user not currently followed’ that something that can be done?yeh, you can tweet anyone AFAIK
[26/01/2011 20:20:09] Lisa Crispin: I don’t understand how these twitter accounts will get followers in the first place?
[26/01/2011 20:20:22] Ben Klaasen: By being interesting!
[26/01/2011 20:20:44] tonybruceuk: ‘X being a customizable number. This will allow us to target users to promote our product’ how customisable? Roman numerals?
[26/01/2011 20:21:09] phil kirkham: [26 January 2011 20:20] Ben Klaasen:
<<< By being interesting!so thats why I dont have many followers…
[26/01/2011 20:21:16] Ben Klaasen:
[26/01/2011 20:21:33] Brian Osman: Leads – favourite 01 – If someone favourites a tweet we posted and we don’t follow them back this should be highlighted & we can choose to follow them back- WHY would we choose – couldn’t this be done automatically? Surely, follwers/following goes hand in hand??
[26/01/2011 20:21:35] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:20] Lisa Crispin:
<<< I don’t understand how these twitter accounts will get followers in the first place?from our leads engine
[26/01/2011 20:21:41] tonybruceuk: ‘Engine will auto suggest agents based upon a skills matching algorithm (yet to be designed)” this part of this project?
[26/01/2011 20:22:11] tonybruceuk: I have read the requirements doc (well..skimmed) and I feel now is a good time to announce my intent to resign.
[26/01/2011 20:22:13] Lisa Crispin: is the leads engine in this doc, or is that another project?
[26/01/2011 20:22:45] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:22] Lisa Crispin:
<<< is the leads engine in this doc, or is that another project?it’s under leads requirements section
[26/01/2011 20:22:47] Lisa Crispin: haha Tony
[26/01/2011 20:22:54] Ben Klaasen: Are you guys aware of the folks in ad agencies who manage social media for corporate accounts? They spend all their time on twitter and love being the corporate spokesperson.
[26/01/2011 20:22:59] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:21] Brian Osman:
<<< Leads – favourite 01 – If someone favourites a tweet we posted and we don’t follow them back this should be highlighted & we can choose to follow them back- WHY would we choose – couldn’t this be done automatically? Surely, follwers/following goes hand in hand??
[26/01/2011 20:23:10] Ben Klaasen: They get a superstar buzz and it’s a problem for the agencies
[26/01/2011 20:23:11] phil kirkham: @tony Why resign ? will be ages before anything is built for you to test
[26/01/2011 20:23:21] Lisa Crispin: not having any domain knowledge except as a user of twitter makes it hard for me to make suggestions
[26/01/2011 20:23:37] Brian Osman: Leads engine is about possible avenues to gather following and increase interest…who determines the possible avenues??? Is this a manual process??
[26/01/2011 20:24:05] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:23] Ben Klaasen:
<<< They get a superstar buzz and it’s a problem for the agenciesI could see that happening
[26/01/2011 20:24:14] Lisa Crispin: oh, doh, I see the leads engine is in section 3
[26/01/2011 20:24:24] Adam Brown: [26 January 2011 20:22] Ben Klaasen:
<<< Are you guys aware of the folks in ad agencies who manage social media for corporate accounts? They spend all their time on twitter and love being the corporate spokesperson.Get paid to sit on Twitter all day? Where do I apply?!
[26/01/2011 20:24:32] Ben Klaasen:
[26/01/2011 20:24:38] Brian Osman: @adam brown – hahaha
[26/01/2011 20:25:07] Lisa Crispin: so is this basically a twitter client like Tweetdeck but souped up with other features to keep in touch better with potential customers?
[26/01/2011 20:25:20] Ben Klaasen: I think the distinction between keywords on the presense screen and hashtags on the leads screen should be better defined
[26/01/2011 20:25:23] tonybruceuk: Isn’t Brian Gibb a Bee Gee?
[26/01/2011 20:25:31] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:23] Brian Osman:
<<< Leads engine is about possible avenues to gather following and increase interest…who determines the possible avenues??? Is this a manual process??I’m so confused now, I’ve forgotten what we specified in the requirements. If it’s not auto thats a good additional requirement thanks
[26/01/2011 20:25:32] Ben Klaasen: @Lisa – exactly
[26/01/2011 20:25:36] Brian Osman: @lisa – thats what i ‘saw’ in my mind too
[26/01/2011 20:25:48] Adam Brown: [26 January 2011 20:25] tonybruceuk:
<<< Isn’t Brian Gibb a Bee Gee?LOL!
[26/01/2011 20:25:59] weeknighttesting: 5 mins left
[26/01/2011 20:26:04] Ben Klaasen: Thanks, now I have an ear-worm!
[26/01/2011 20:26:49] Brian Osman: @ben – good point – wouldn’t the hastags/keywords be similar?
[26/01/2011 20:27:16] tonybruceuk: If they got agents working 24/7 can’t they just do whatever the hell this thing is supposed to do manually?
[26/01/2011 20:27:27] Lisa Crispin: @AdamBrown I got the sense that these are fake names?
[26/01/2011 20:27:35] sharath: Have u considered security threats?
[26/01/2011 20:27:49] Lisa Crispin: @Tony I was wondering that too, like can’t they just use Tweetdeck?
[26/01/2011 20:27:50] Ben Klaasen: @Brian – Well, the CRM user could define “crm” as a keyword, so a tweet like “I hate crm systems” would match that search…
[26/01/2011 20:27:56] Lisa Crispin: but again I don’t know the domain
[26/01/2011 20:28:02] weeknighttesting: hashtag keywords are similar good point
[26/01/2011 20:28:09] Ben Klaasen: …and so would “I love good #crm”
[26/01/2011 20:28:11] tonybruceuk: I would like an example, give me a example of one user and how that user gets on a campaign
[26/01/2011 20:28:22] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:27] tonybruceuk:
<<< If they got agents working 24/7 can’t they just do whatever the hell this thing is supposed to do manually?:)
[26/01/2011 20:28:32] Adam Brown: @lisa yeah they’re fake
[26/01/2011 20:28:54] Brian Osman: @sharath – in what way? What security aspects where you thinking of?
[26/01/2011 20:29:20] richardjameshill: these agents may be bots
[26/01/2011 20:29:28] phil kirkham: [26 January 2011 20:28] tonybruceuk:
<<< I would like an example, give me a example of one user and how that user gets on a campaignYeh, havent these guys heard of Specification by Example ? someone call Gojko !!
[26/01/2011 20:29:30] richardjameshill: its cheaper
[26/01/2011 20:29:41] Ben Klaasen: GivWenZen!
[26/01/2011 20:29:41] Brian Osman: @ben – oh yeah…
[26/01/2011 20:29:44] tonybruceuk: Somebody heard the word engine and just reeeeeeeeeeeally liked it.
[26/01/2011 20:30:25] Brian Osman: Does anyone feel kinda ‘overwhelmed’ from an agents pointg of view when you read the Reports section…
[26/01/2011 20:30:26] Ben Klaasen: tick tock tick tock
[26/01/2011 20:30:26] Brian Osman: ??
[26/01/2011 20:30:37] tonybruceuk: I would like Brian to walk me through his idea and for Patricia to explain what is the exact key selling point
[26/01/2011 20:30:39] weeknighttesting: Ok times up.. thanks everyone
Could you prepare you’re session reports and paste a link to them or paste them directly here
[26/01/2011 20:30:47] Brian Osman: I mean overwhilemed bythe volume/detail of the reports
[26/01/2011 20:31:07] Lisa Crispin: me too
[26/01/2011 20:31:10] richardjameshill: I’d like a scenario /user of what these agents do
[26/01/2011 20:31:23] Lisa Crispin: I have a mind map, can I paste that here somehow?
[26/01/2011 20:31:40] tonybruceuk: Heheh “The following is a collection of misc use cases which would be beneficial. We just need to determine where they link to in the feature.” Let’s just throw some random stuff in and see what happens! When somebody tweets I want a moooooooooooo sound effect!
[26/01/2011 20:32:27] Brian Osman: I’ll do that later today (glad its *only* 9.32am)
[26/01/2011 20:32:28] Anand Ramdeo: What a session.. I was not participating in the discussion but had good time with Freemind – (xmind refused to start) and experimented with analysing requirments using mind map.
[26/01/2011 20:32:28] Del Dewar: [26 January 2011 20:31] richardjameshill:
<<< I’d like a scenario /user of what these agents doIn my experience they generally, smoke, swear, and cold call innocent customers but not all at the same time.
[26/01/2011 20:32:29] sharath: @bjosman wht if the Profile 01 starts spamming all its followers? will the company maintianing the twitter account is under risk?
[26/01/2011 20:32:33] tonybruceuk: Laser beams! When the engine leads something I want to see laser beams and hear the lightsaber sound effect!
[26/01/2011 20:32:41] weeknighttesting: you can provide a link to a screenshot Lisa
[26/01/2011 20:32:54] Rakesh Reddy: @tony how about customizing it so that when a friend tweets it alerts with sound “Oye !!”
[26/01/2011 20:33:08] Ben Klaasen: …or Lisa, if it’s on paper, snap it with your mobile and send it to TweetPic
[26/01/2011 20:33:11] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:31] tonybruceuk:
<<< Heheh “The following is a collection of misc use cases which would be beneficial. We just need to determine where they link to in the feature.” Let’s just throw some random stuff in and see what happens! When somebody tweets I want a moooooooooooo sound effect!well spotted
[26/01/2011 20:33:15] Lisa Crispin: ok
[26/01/2011 20:33:21] Brian Osman: @sharath – hmm interesting point!
[26/01/2011 20:33:25] Lisa Crispin: will take me a minute to upload
[26/01/2011 20:33:30] tonybruceuk: @Rakesh oooh I like that
[26/01/2011 20:33:31] Lisa Crispin: is screenshot better, or pdf?
[26/01/2011 20:33:42] Ben Klaasen: Plain old JPG!
[26/01/2011 20:33:50] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:31] richardjameshill:
<<< I’d like a scenario /user of what these agents dothat would have been an excellent addition to this I’ll add that in on Monday for my meeting thanks
[26/01/2011 20:33:55] tonybruceuk: Can these poor twitter uses who get flooded by
these get off it? How do they unsubscribe or whatever
[26/01/2011 20:34:11] Ben Klaasen: They stop following – or at worst – ban the CRM account
[26/01/2011 20:34:13] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:32] sharath:
<<< @bjosman wht if the Profile 01 starts spamming all its followers? will the company maintianing the twitter account is under risk?Excellent
[26/01/2011 20:34:36] Brian Osman: Man – i would be *annoyed* by spam tweets like this! But then again, thats from a *uder* point of view
[26/01/2011 20:34:42] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:33] tonybruceuk:
<<< Can these poor twitter uses who get flooded by these get off it? How do they unsubscribe or whatevertwitter can let you block or report for spam
[26/01/2011 20:34:57] Del Dewar: Everything seems to be predicated on the assumption that ‘tweeple’ (collective term for people who use twitter) will *want* to follow CRM-R-US clients. So many requirements look into how you can slice and dice information about your followers (tweets, groups, presence, hashtags, etc.) but nothing actually tells me how CRM-R-US clients are actually going to amass an audience in the first place?
[26/01/2011 20:35:01] Brian Osman: guess which button i would be pressing!
[26/01/2011 20:35:10] richardjameshill: So what happens when company chages atwitter ccount can we migrate all the data and keep the functionlaity – if its back to square one – its risky
[26/01/2011 20:35:22] Del Dewar: If we’re talking about potentially large, well-known clients – say, Sky TV in the UK them amassing a following may not be problematic, but if you’re talking small fry like TopupTV, then where’s the inclination?
[26/01/2011 20:35:31] sharath: what steps will be taken if there is a negative tweet?
[26/01/2011 20:35:34] Ben Klaasen: Campaigns
[26/01/2011 20:35:49] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:34] Del Dewar:
<<< Everything seems to be predicated on the assumption that ‘tweeple’ (collective term for people who use twitter) will *want* to follow CRM-R-US clients. So many requirements look into how you can slice and dice information about your followers (tweets, groups, presence, hashtags, etc.) but nothing actually tells me how CRM-R-US clients are actually going to amass an audience in the first place?A very valid failure, perhaps the real risk is that we didn’t have a solid buisness case for this feature?
[26/01/2011 20:35:54] tonybruceuk: How are we going to regression test this? Bags I don’t write the automated checks.
[26/01/2011 20:36:11] Del Dewar: The ‘Leads’ requirements, for example, Leads-Lists-01 talks about identifying lists on twitter that CRM-R-US clients don’t follow and and how the CRM-R-US clients can follow all the members within a couple of mouse clicks – erm, so what? Is there an assumption that if CRM-R-US clients follow people, they’ll follow them back? Not the case.
[26/01/2011 20:36:13] richardjameshill: I’d give away vouchers on the system to hook people that sort of thing. The newpapers do it with cds
[26/01/2011 20:36:27] Ben Klaasen: @tonybruceuk: We’d have to build Twitter API mockups
[26/01/2011 20:36:29] Anand Ramdeo: http://twitpic.com/3tnliu or http://twitpic.com/3tnliu/full for my session report
[26/01/2011 20:36:40] Del Dewar: There’s a lot of technical fluff here, but no real business reasons – that’s my biggest problem.
[26/01/2011 20:37:00] tonybruceuk: “It also contains the specific customer need ” I beat it frakin doesn’t seems like the customers don’t know they are customers
[26/01/2011 20:37:11] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:36] Del Dewar:
<<< There’s a lot of technical fluff here, but no real business reasons – that’s my biggest problem.
[26/01/2011 20:37:49] tonybruceuk: Heh, loving 6.1.2 In Scope section.
[26/01/2011 20:37:53] weeknighttesting: Would it be fair in saying the requirements don’t make for a solid buisness case at this point?
[26/01/2011 20:38:07] Ben Klaasen: @Anand, That mind map is superb
[26/01/2011 20:38:09] Adam Brown: Session Report
* Identified that this will be a Web applications built using Java. As no web browsers are specifically mentioned in the Requirements, it may be worth listing the browsers you will most likely be using
* Requirements that are out of scope are included in this document. May be worth removing them for the time being, signing the spec and building the software. Then add the out of scope items (which will now be in scope) to version 2 of the requirements, sign, build etc.
[26/01/2011 20:38:11] sharath: If your crm starts filtering -ve tweets about a company, would you prospective buyer be interested to buy this srm?
[26/01/2011 20:38:31 | Edited 20:46:51] richardjameshill: I read the main document quickly,
reread looking for gaps
then again looking for risk
then again looking for more details
I used a text editor to record notes , the mind maps were better. My notes became unstructured.
I struggled with the meeting application. So abandnoed it, I dropped questions into the man chat instead. Which wasnt the best way.
I would have liked to have used more memonics
[26/01/2011 20:38:37] tonybruceuk: @Darren, I don’t think they are making anything.
[26/01/2011 20:39:04] Mike Scott: Session Report
Needed time up front with user
Fell into trap of trying to understand whole doc. Wasted 30 mins until my time to ask Qs
Only focused on important bit at the end.
Tried to get examples but client was not sure. Needs more than 5 mins – only got 4 of 5 Qs in
I think a shared Q session would be more beneficial
Tried to build model using Type with me but not enough in it on campaigns to share with user
In real world would need to prep more on domain before talking with client
Still interesting excercise
[26/01/2011 20:39:10] tonybruceuk: But maybe if I was in Sales I’d be loving it.
[26/01/2011 20:39:26] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:38] Ben Klaasen:
<<< @Anand, That mind map is superb+1 Thats fantastic feedback
[26/01/2011 20:40:11] Adam Brown: [26 January 2011 20:38] Mike Scott:
<<< Fell into trap of trying to understand whole doc. Wasted 30 mins until my time to ask QsI tried that then concerntrate on one bit after it got too much!
[26/01/2011 20:40:16] weeknighttesting: thanks Adam, more vagueness I’ll need to address
[26/01/2011 20:40:28] Anand Ramdeo: Thanks
[26/01/2011 20:40:38] Lisa Crispin: ok here is my mind map http://lisacrispin.com/downloads/WN04MindMap.jpeg
[26/01/2011 20:41:26] Mike Scott: My notes and start of model in Type with me at http://typewith.me/KXhUqsJ5EY
[26/01/2011 20:41:29] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:39] Mike Scott:
<<< Fell into trap of trying to understand whole doc. Wasted 30 mins until my time to ask QsI like this a lot, how many considered targeting a specific section of the document? For the short timeframe we had to provide feedback
[26/01/2011 20:41:36] Anand Ramdeo: Nice one Lisa
[26/01/2011 20:42:08] Brian Osman: Session report – I drew a mindmap of the requirements and then focussed on the campaign engine as i saw that it was the biggest risk…especially when i saw that the CEO was taking interest in this. Alot of other ideas were based on questions/ideas others had
[26/01/2011 20:42:15] Anand Ramdeo: I started analyzing the first sentence because it was difficult to read/understand in the time we had anyway
[26/01/2011 20:42:28] Lisa Crispin: I was overwhelmed by the big doc, and not havnig seen an old skool requirements doc in 11 years, my eyes rolled back in my head
[26/01/2011 20:42:38] Lisa Crispin: I think it might have been good to give us each a section or something
[26/01/2011 20:43:00] Del Dewar: I skimmed all the requirements, but just kept asking the same question. WHY?
[26/01/2011 20:43:12] Brian Osman: @lisa – he he he
[26/01/2011 20:43:20] Anand Ramdeo: All of us had different approaches – Understand it all, identify major risk area, time is short so analyse what you can..
[26/01/2011 20:43:21] weeknighttesting: [20:40:38] Lisa Crispin: ok here is my mind map http://lisacrispin.com/downloads/WN04MindMap.jpeg
excellent lisa, some very good points for anyone to consider when testing requirements
[26/01/2011 20:43:25] Mike Scott: I think a share Question session for first 15 mins would have focused us better
[26/01/2011 20:43:28] Brian Osman: I kept asking myself “what is it not saying”
[26/01/2011 20:43:55] *** weeknighttesting added Aruna ***
[26/01/2011 20:44:13] Lisa Crispin: Session report – Mohinder and I planned to pair, but sharing a desktop wasn’t appropriate for testing a requirements doc. We should have shared some online mind map or something. We needed a better plan than we have and didn’t have much chance to exchange ideas, though we did some and that was helpful to me. The rest of my feedback is in my mind map
[26/01/2011 20:44:14] tonybruceuk: Apologies, I just threw out questions, didn’t note them down
[26/01/2011 20:44:14] Brian Osman: nice mind maps guys
[26/01/2011 20:44:18] Mike Scott: Diagram at http://www.bettertesting.co.uk/content/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/CRM-R-US.jpg was much more useful to me than the whole other doc
[26/01/2011 20:44:28] weeknighttesting: Welcome Aruna we are just in last 45mins of the session I’ll paste what our mission was, we are debriefing it now
[26/01/2011 20:44:41] Lisa Crispin: yes, the diagram helped me a lot too
[26/01/2011 20:44:53] Mike Scott: Really nice map lisa
[26/01/2011 20:44:53] Adam Brown: @Lisa That was using xmind, wasn’t it?
[26/01/2011 20:44:58] Lisa Crispin: thanks!
[26/01/2011 20:45:01] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:43] Brian Osman:
<<< I kept asking myself “what is it not saying”:)
[26/01/2011 20:45:06] Lisa Crispin: it was using MindJet MindManager
[26/01/2011 20:45:08] Brian Osman: And me – the diagram helped me
[26/01/2011 20:45:34 | Removed 20:45:47] Del Dewar: This message has been removed.
[26/01/2011 20:45:39] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:42] Brian Osman:
<<< Session report – I drew a mindmap of the requirements and then focussed on the campaign engine as i saw that it was the biggest risk…especially when i saw that the CEO was taking interest in this. Alot of other ideas were based on questions/ideas others hadI’d say that was a major risk also
[26/01/2011 20:45:45] Adam Brown: @Lisa Thanks Lisa. Not heard of that one, but will try having a play with it. Your mind map was ace
[26/01/2011 20:45:50] Lisa Crispin: thanks!
[26/01/2011 20:46:02] Lisa Crispin: it was just stream of consciousness
[26/01/2011 20:46:04] Del Dewar: [26 January 2011 20:43] Brian Osman:
<<< I kept asking myself “what is it not saying”Quite a lot as it turns out
[26/01/2011 20:46:18] Lisa Crispin: Mohinder and I wanted to do voice chat but that ended up not working out
[26/01/2011 20:46:40] Lisa Crispin: and I wanted to share a mind map with him but MindMeister limits you to 2 maps until you pay for it, I already had 2!
[26/01/2011 20:46:44] Anand Ramdeo: @Brian – Why do you think CEO taking interest makes difference to what we test? Should it not be what is more useful?
[26/01/2011 20:46:45] Mohinder Khosla: Document was read in a hurry trying to understand the terminology took time. Early view of the doc would have created more interest in what your company trying to achieve
[26/01/2011 20:46:46] Brian Osman: @Del – yeah – once i got my head in that space – the questions came quick!
[26/01/2011 20:46:47] Mike Scott: Can’t remember from last time, did any have an online shared mind mapper?
[26/01/2011 20:46:56] tonybruceuk: @Mike, I think I’m missing something, don’t understand your doc, they points to follow up?
[26/01/2011 20:47:10] Lisa Crispin: Last time, Darren and I used MindMeister, it worked pretty well
[26/01/2011 20:47:14] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:44] Mike Scott:
<<< Diagram at http://www.bettertesting.co.uk/content/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/CRM-R-US.jpg was much more useful to me than the whole other docThose who enquired at meeting got some extra info such as a diagram I drew to help me understand the feature a little better
No meeting = possible trap?
[26/01/2011 20:47:32] richardjameshill: I read the main document quickly,
reread looking for gaps
then again looking for risk
then again looking for more details
I used a text editor to record notes , the mind maps were better. My notes record became unstructured.
I struggled with the meeting application. So abandoned it, I dropped questions into the man chat instead. Which wasnt the best way.
I would have liked to have used more memonics.
[26/01/2011 20:47:50] Brian Osman: @Anand – because the CEO is “..someone who matters” – a very big someone – if we mess up with the CEO, how much confidence will they have in *us* for future projects/funding/jobs??
[26/01/2011 20:48:02] Mohinder Khosla: @lisa Xmind you can share maps online I think
[26/01/2011 20:48:06] Lisa Crispin: @Mike I like that outline kind of thing you did in typewith.me
[26/01/2011 20:48:14] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:47] richardjameshill:
<<< I would have liked to have used more memonics.
[26/01/2011 20:48:20] Mike Scott: My doc was an attempt to model the the requirements with questions at points. Middle bit unter Domain Model is the main bit.
[26/01/2011 20:48:32] Anand Ramdeo: @Brian CEO is not user – isn’t it?
[26/01/2011 20:48:37] Lisa Crispin: something like Mike’s doc would be nice as an intro to the big requirements doc
[26/01/2011 20:48:45] Mike Scott: Would have liked more time to ask about userr community and stakeholders
[26/01/2011 20:48:59] Brian Osman: @Anand – but also a user with influence and authority/power
[26/01/2011 20:49:51] Del Dewar: [26 January 2011 20:48] Lisa Crispin:
<<< something like Mike’s doc would be nice as an intro to the big requirements docDefinitely, but then part of the fun here was to cut through Darren’s stressed out BA persona to get some real information.
[26/01/2011 20:49:58] Lisa Crispin: wow @Anand your mind map is really something – you came up with so many great questions
[26/01/2011 20:49:58] Anand Ramdeo: @Brian – Interest of CEO and what is important for the product might not be aligned. So instead of focussing on where CEO’s interest lies, should we not educate CEO?
[26/01/2011 20:49:59] Mike Scott: @Lisa thanks would have been good to turn it into a mind map though
[26/01/2011 20:50:21] weeknighttesting: Keeping up with all you lot was stessful also Del
[26/01/2011 20:50:33] Anand Ramdeo: Thanks Lisa
[26/01/2011 20:50:37] Brian Osman: I found this challenging at the begining as i was late and in catch up mode – another trap – haste!
[26/01/2011 20:50:44] richardjameshill: @Anand – it really comes down to the relationship you have with him/her
[26/01/2011 20:50:47] Lisa Crispin: I got to get back to work y’all – this has been really interesting – it’d be nice to have more discussion about it
[26/01/2011 20:51:02] weeknighttesting: thanks Lisa
[26/01/2011 20:51:17] Anand Ramdeo: It also shows I did not look at majority of the document – was hoping to get more time from stake holders after showing it
[26/01/2011 20:51:40] Mike Scott: @Lisa , bye and thanks for joining us again
[26/01/2011 20:51:42] Mohinder Khosla: Bye lisa
[26/01/2011 20:51:59] Brian Osman: Bye Lisa!
[26/01/2011 20:52:04] Anand Ramdeo: Bye Lisa
[26/01/2011 20:52:37] Adam Brown: Was a good topic and wasn’t as scary as i thought it would be
[26/01/2011 20:52:46] tonybruceuk: Bye Lisa
[26/01/2011 20:52:47] Brian Osman: When i focussed on one section (e.g. leads) i reminded myself to defocus and look at the rest of the doc too
[26/01/2011 20:52:56] richardjameshill: Yes, where do we send our reports?
[26/01/2011 20:53:11] Mike Scott: Did anyone else try to get examples from client
[26/01/2011 20:53:11] Ben Klaasen: My report: Executive summary contains dodgy grammar, doc is peppered with typos.
Document won’t print from web (for easy reading, skimming, highlighting, notes)
No reason not to include wireframes. I found building a wireframe while reading the spec very useful.
One hour to understand the domain is too little, especially keeping track of Skype chat
Five minutes too little with BA
Major stability issues with Skype – upgrade pronto
[26/01/2011 20:53:13] Prem R: Good experience – first time in WNT
[26/01/2011 20:53:14] Brian Osman: Wow – doesnt the session ‘fly’!!!
[26/01/2011 20:53:23] Del Dewar: [26 January 2011 20:52] Brian Osman:
<<< When i focussed on one section (e.g. leads) i reminded myself to defocus and look at the rest of the doc tooIndeed. Very useful heuristic!
[26/01/2011 20:53:26] weeknighttesting: Paste a link to the report here or paste it’s contents I’ll write up a session report soon.
[26/01/2011 20:53:28] Brian Osman: @Prem R – me too – this was great!
[26/01/2011 20:53:43] Prem R: Will plan to stay off work next time!!
[26/01/2011 20:54:11] Aruna: I joined late. The discussion sounds interesting. Reading the req doc
[26/01/2011 20:54:21] Ben Klaasen: That was outstanding. Thanks to everyone who participated – you’re a smart and dedicated bunch!
[26/01/2011 20:54:50] Rakesh Reddy: I’ve used Mindmap for this first time and here is my Report, Thanks http://tinyurl.com/6z4cyrc
[26/01/2011 20:55:03] Ben Klaasen: I work with a group of passionate testers, and I’m really delighted to see there are more of us out there! It’s been a real pleasure. Thank you. Thanks especially to Darren for organising this and putting the mission together.
[26/01/2011 20:55:16] Brian Osman: @ben – dude i was about to say the samething about everyone in this session!
[26/01/2011 20:55:31] Prem R: Darren – thx for organizing
[26/01/2011 20:55:40] weeknighttesting: Very good feedback everyone. I’m sure if I manage to collate it all and fix my typos I’ll be able to keep my job as a BA so thank you all very much
[26/01/2011 20:55:45] Brian Osman: Thanks Darren – great work
[26/01/2011 20:55:48] Ben Klaasen:
[26/01/2011 20:55:50] Adam Brown: Yep cheers Darren
[26/01/2011 20:55:58] Mike Scott: Nice map Rakesh
[26/01/2011 20:56:03] richardjameshill: ~~ Thanks Darren ~~
[26/01/2011 20:56:15] sharath: Team I had to take care of an urgent stuff after the testing session. My experience of todays session. For the first 15 min I did not understand the mission and then I started asking questions. With the information I got I assumed my mission was to look into – if the requirement doc is testable and lost the plot. I then decided to ask if my finidngs are of any value and then phil gave me the hint on what i should be looking at
[26/01/2011 20:56:15] Prem R: Do we plan to continue this discussion at the next WNT session
[26/01/2011 20:56:21] weeknighttesting: Ok question time
[26/01/2011 20:56:22] Ben Klaasen: I’m totally sold on mind maps after this session.
[26/01/2011 20:56:24] weeknighttesting: Did you meet the mission?
[26/01/2011 20:56:35] richardjameshill: @Ben — yes me too
[26/01/2011 20:56:37] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:56] Ben Klaasen:
<<< I’m totally sold on mind maps after this session.:)
[26/01/2011 20:56:43] Aruna: @Darren: Thank you so much for the session. Looking forward to join the next one ontime
[26/01/2011 20:56:53] Prem R: Has the next session been planned yet?
[26/01/2011 20:56:57] Mike Scott: We still have 35 mins left this session for discussion
[26/01/2011 20:57:01] Adam Brown: [26 January 2011 20:56] Ben Klaasen:
<<< I’m totally sold on mind maps after this session.Me too! found just looking at others helped me loads. will be looking at using them myself from now on!
[26/01/2011 20:57:11] Brian Osman: mental note that next time i’ll have the mind map app open BEFORE the session starts! LOL
[26/01/2011 20:57:22] Mohinder Khosla: Lisa and I were sharing screen with IM box to communicate ideas, jump into skype from time to time. Not able to use skype when she was using FreeMap for mindmap. These are some of the shorcomings of working in pairs.Lisa had two screens so she could manage but my screen she controlled. If I moved the cursor her typing slipped
[26/01/2011 20:57:24] tonybruceuk: @pgrqa9, I don’t think it has been planned yet
[26/01/2011 20:57:34] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 20:54] Rakesh Reddy:
<<< I’ve used Mindmap for this first time and here is my Report, Thanks http://tinyurl.com/6z4cyrcNice
[26/01/2011 20:57:40] Anand Ramdeo: Yes – I need confirmation from the stakeholder though.
[26/01/2011 20:58:00] tonybruceuk: @Rakesh, nicely done
[26/01/2011 20:58:02] Brian Osman: @mohinder – i wonder if that is an example of where pairing is not as effective as working *solo*?
[26/01/2011 20:58:37] tonybruceuk: I used mindmiester which would actually allow you to pair on a mindmap onlilne
[26/01/2011 20:58:43] Anand Ramdeo: Thanks Darren for such a nice exercise Enjoyed it thoroughly. Time for me to grab some dinner now. Thank you all for participating and hope to see you guys in next session.
[26/01/2011 20:58:58] Brian Osman: See you Anand!
[26/01/2011 20:58:58] weeknighttesting: —————————-
So did anyone meet the mission? Or was the mission a trap in itself?
[26/01/2011 20:59:07] sharath: Bye Anand, excellent report
[26/01/2011 20:59:13] weeknighttesting: thanks Anand
[26/01/2011 20:59:35] tonybruceuk: Cya Anand
[26/01/2011 20:59:36] Ben Klaasen: Ashamed to say I totally lost the mission: “As testers the mission for you tonight will be to provide feedback on those initial requirements. Identify gaps, issues, risks. If you want to help even more suggestion for improvement would certainly make me look good! ”
[26/01/2011 20:59:49] Del Dewar: [26 January 2011 20:59] weeknighttesting:
So did anyone meet the mission? Or was the mission a trap in itself?Given the absolute lack of any business justification, I say trap!
[26/01/2011 20:59:56] richardjameshill: Would anyone have managed there time differentty?
[26/01/2011 20:59:57] sharath: [26 January 2011 20:59] Del Dewar:
<<< Or was the mission a trap in itself?
[26/01/2011 21:00:00] Mike Scott: I definitely need two screens. Or masive resolution. There is just not enough real estate to keep up with source doc (or SUT), note taking area and two or three skype chat sessions
[26/01/2011 21:00:33] Mohinder Khosla: @brian Lisa was controlling the screen so I could not read the document properly. So my comments are scarce.Lisa done the hard work but hard lessons learnt
[26/01/2011 21:00:54] richardjameshill: After skim reading I should have allocated a set amount of time to each section of the report. Then 5 mins review at the end
[26/01/2011 21:01:34] Del Dewar: @Mike – Bought a Samsung LED 22″ monitor for the laptop specifically for these exercises. Quiet, cool, and doubles my screen size. 1080p FTW!
[26/01/2011 21:01:43] Adam Brown: I have 3 screens at work and i wanted to keep dragging stuff about so i could see the chat window and the spec, but i’m using my laptop at the minute!
[26/01/2011 21:01:49] Mike Scott: Yes missed the mission and need to manage time better. I think more shared briefing and focusing before we split would have got better results
[26/01/2011 21:02:03] richardjameshill: I thin reading the mission and making a heading for Gaps, Issues, Risks ect.. would have helped me meet the objective better
[26/01/2011 21:02:07] Ben Klaasen: I found the chatter on Skype overwhelming.
[26/01/2011 21:02:15] Brian Osman: I think the mission was met in the sense that it generated alot more questions than the doc had answers for. Some risks where identified but time management for me was an issue
[26/01/2011 21:02:26] weeknighttesting: Just as a side note this is the intial requirements style I have to provide feedback on in my workplace. With less gaps / issues obviously because it’s real BA’s writing them
[26/01/2011 21:02:35] richardjameshill: @Do you use it at work. I have for nearly 2 years now and get used to it
[26/01/2011 21:02:36] tonybruceuk: WNT and WT sessions are always going to run out of time, think it’s probably better to pick one section to focus on
[26/01/2011 21:02:45] Ben Klaasen: Normally if I were to scan a doc like this, I’d do a solid pass, taking notes, without any interruptions
[26/01/2011 21:02:54] Brian Osman: @ben – agreed – it was hard to keep up, feed off everyone’s great ideas and continue on my own thread
[26/01/2011 21:03:05] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 21:02] Ben Klaasen:
<<< I found the chatter on Skype overwhelming.+1
[26/01/2011 21:03:06] Ben Klaasen: So I didn’t work the way I do at work, IYKWIM
[26/01/2011 21:03:33] Mohinder Khosla: @Darren Would you like post feedback after this session or you nhad enough to get you going for few days?
[26/01/2011 21:04:07] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 21:03] Mohinder Khosla:
<<< @Darren Would you like post feedback after this session or you nhad enough to get you going for few days?I think I see a very long long blog entry coming
[26/01/2011 21:04:28] weeknighttesting: not that I write long blog posts
[26/01/2011 21:04:31] Ben Klaasen: @Darren, do you keep the transcripts of each session for posterity?
[26/01/2011 21:04:46] Adam Brown: if i were reviewing a document like this at work i would print it off and make notes. it would also take me longer han an hour to review it properly. I’d also write any findings in a separate document when I came across them, but didn’t do that here
[26/01/2011 21:04:50] Rakesh Reddy: Thanks to Darren and team for this excellent session, Mission accomplished. Mindmap helped me to ask more question than i imagined before using it – easpecially, what is the benifit of implementing this feature kind of. I saved Rapid Reporter for next seesion
[26/01/2011 21:04:52] weeknighttesting: Yup it’ll be going on weekendtesting.com probably mon-ish
[26/01/2011 21:04:53] Ben Klaasen: …oh and was I the only one having connectivity problem with Skype?
[26/01/2011 21:04:55] tonybruceuk: @Ben, all transcripts are on the website
[26/01/2011 21:05:08] sharath: @Darren and team – could we move away from requirement docs with only words in it?
[26/01/2011 21:05:18] Del Dewar: @Darren – perhaps this kind of exercise with stressed out BAs is better done in person. Then we really put your acting skills to the test. Could always rehash at Nottingham STC meetup
[26/01/2011 21:05:28] Ben Klaasen: [21:04:48 IST] Adam Brown: if i were reviewing a document like this at work i would print it off and make notes. it would also take me longer han an hour to review it properly. I’d also write any findings in a separate document when I came across them, but didn’t do that here
<<<<< Exactly how I work!
[26/01/2011 21:05:43] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 21:05] sharath:
<<< @Darren and team – could we move away from requirement docs with only words in it?I think thats an excellent suggestion
[26/01/2011 21:06:03] Ben Klaasen:
[26/01/2011 21:06:07] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 21:05] Del Dewar:
<<< @Darren – perhaps this kind of exercise with stressed out BAs is better done in person. Then we really put your acting skills to the test. Could always rehash at Nottingham STC meetuphaha I’m a good actor
[26/01/2011 21:06:17] Mike Scott: Transcripts of the session should be posted on WeekendTesting.com will you do that Darren. It can wait until after you try it with your team
[26/01/2011 21:06:22] Brian Osman: @ben – similar to you but most likely use more mindmapping from now on!
[26/01/2011 21:06:51] Mohinder Khosla: @Mike how do you save Skype script
[26/01/2011 21:07:12] Rakesh Reddy: alright, everone it was nice session time for dinner, meet you guys again in next session1
[26/01/2011 21:07:30] sharath: Bye Rakesh
[26/01/2011 21:07:30] tonybruceuk: @Rakesy bye, enjoy dinner!
[26/01/2011 21:07:31] Mike Scott: I find it difficult to understand documents without diagrams. I also find I need a whiteboard to think with!
[26/01/2011 21:07:32] Ben Klaasen: Could we have a list of all the mind mapping tools that got a mention in the chat? There are loads I’ve never heard of or tried.
[26/01/2011 21:07:48] sharath: [26 January 2011 21:07] Mike Scott:
<<< I find it difficult to understand documents without diagrams. I also find I need a whiteboard to think with!
[26/01/2011 21:07:54] Mike Scott: Check out transcript of WNTesting #3
[26/01/2011 21:08:11] Adam Brown: Lisa used “MindJet MindManager”
and some others used Xmind I think
[26/01/2011 21:08:21] Mike Scott: WNTesting #3 was on mind maps
[26/01/2011 21:08:25] tonybruceuk: There’s also freemind
[26/01/2011 21:08:30] Ben Klaasen: Folks, thanks again for a brilliant session. I’ve gotta go and engage with my poor neglected wife. Goodbye, see you next time!
[26/01/2011 21:08:39] tonybruceuk: Cya Ben
[26/01/2011 21:08:44] Ben Klaasen: Oh yeah freemind is junk
[26/01/2011 21:08:45] Mike Scott: Bye Rakesh
[26/01/2011 21:08:47] sharath: bye Ben
[26/01/2011 21:08:50] weeknighttesting: ————————————
how would you present this to a stakeholder
[26/01/2011 21:08:56] Mohinder Khosla: @Adam Lisa used Mind Meister whereas Anand used XMind
[26/01/2011 21:09:00] weeknighttesting: this being the feedback provided
[26/01/2011 21:09:29] Mike Scott: Bye Ben
[26/01/2011 21:09:36] Ben Klaasen: [21:07:55 IST] Mike Scott: Check out transcript of WNTesting #3
[21:08:12 IST] Adam Brown: Lisa used “MindJet MindManager”
and some others used Xmind I think
[21:08:23 IST] Mike Scott: WNTesting #3 was on mind maps
<<<< Cool, thanks, I will
[26/01/2011 21:09:37] weeknighttesting: thanks ben
[26/01/2011 21:09:45] Mohinder Khosla: I still prefer my Visio
[26/01/2011 21:09:58] Ben Klaasen: I’m on Ubuntu, so no windows apps for me
[26/01/2011 21:10:10] richardjameshill: freemind is ok on ubuntu
[26/01/2011 21:10:14] sharath: how abt using mind maps to present it?
[26/01/2011 21:10:17] Ben Klaasen: …under Wine?
[26/01/2011 21:10:17] Mike Scott: What do you mean present to a stakeholder?
[26/01/2011 21:10:40] Mike Scott: How to provide feedback on doc or how to present requirements?
[26/01/2011 21:11:32] weeknighttesting: For example a mind map could be readable, large chunks of textual feedback less so.
How do you get them to consider the feedback seriously without being overwhelmed
[26/01/2011 21:11:42] richardjameshill: @Ben – its java
[26/01/2011 21:11:43] tonybruceuk: @Ben, mindmiester is online
[26/01/2011 21:11:57] Adam Brown: I’m going to shoot off now guys. Thanks for an enjoyable and enlightening evening! Hopefully see you all in the next session!
[26/01/2011 21:12:25] Mike Scott: I still think diagram, wireframes and examples are best way of documenting requirements / Design
[26/01/2011 21:12:28] Brian Osman: Cya Adam!
[26/01/2011 21:12:28] Mohinder Khosla: @Adam see you next month at the STC meetup
[26/01/2011 21:12:40] tonybruceuk: @Darren, could just pick out a few sections at random and ask stake holders to explain/identify
[26/01/2011 21:12:52] tonybruceuk: @Adam, cya
[26/01/2011 21:12:57] Adam Brown: @mohinder Ah yes! I look forward to seeing you there!
[26/01/2011 21:13:03] weeknighttesting: thanks Adam
[26/01/2011 21:13:11] Mohinder Khosla: bye adam
[26/01/2011 21:13:28] weeknighttesting: I ask as thats often a problem for me
[26/01/2011 21:13:47 | Edited 21:14:28] weeknighttesting: preventing stakeholders having WTF! moments when I provide feedback
[26/01/2011 21:14:00] weeknighttesting: big bang feedback I call it
[26/01/2011 21:14:34] richardjameshill: Bye.. thanks for organising everything and to everone who came. I learned alot today
[26/01/2011 21:14:44] sharath: [26 January 2011 21:12] Mike Scott:
<<< I still think diagram, wireframes and examples are best way of documenting requirements / Designi second this visual aids definetly help
[26/01/2011 21:15:17] Mike Scott: Bye Richard, Bye Adam
[26/01/2011 21:15:25] tonybruceuk: Bye Richard
[26/01/2011 21:15:27] weeknighttesting: One thing no one considered I noticed or perhaps I missed was the competition
[26/01/2011 21:15:43] weeknighttesting: competing products already do most if not all of this
[26/01/2011 21:15:47] weeknighttesting: such as Radian 6
[26/01/2011 21:15:51] Mohinder Khosla: It is easy to prototype the app using wireframe
[26/01/2011 21:16:39] weeknighttesting: one of the snipets I had stored for meetings that no one asked me for (trap) was
We realised that there is a few competing products out there which already do similar things, such as Radian 6. We did discuss if it would be better to integrate our product with them as opposed to investing the effort ourselves. However CEO Patricia was certain we should do it this way so we can customise as much as we like.
[26/01/2011 21:17:01] sharath: u might also be interested to know that microsoft might also be interested in this idea
[26/01/2011 21:17:15] sharath: When i was looking for comparable products I found a link
[26/01/2011 21:17:31] Mike Scott: For wireframes look at http://balsamiq.com/products/mockups BalsamiQ
[26/01/2011 21:17:48] Brian Osman: Hey team – gotta go – thanks for a great session – especially as this is my first one and its great to connect with such an awesome group (i think i *may* have been the only one in the southern hemisphere!)… looking forward to the next session!
[26/01/2011 21:18:06] tonybruceuk: I’m off as well, g’night all
[26/01/2011 21:18:13] tonybruceuk: @Darren, nice one mate
[26/01/2011 21:18:28] sharath: bye Tony
[26/01/2011 21:18:33] weeknighttesting: thanks all who will be doing the next session on the 9th Feb?
[26/01/2011 21:18:36] Mohinder Khosla: Bye guys thanks for the company great evening for sure
[26/01/2011 21:18:39] Brian Osman: BTW – if interesting in weekend testing – Weekend testers Australia NZ is on this weekend https://groups.google.com/group/software-testers-new-zealand/browse_thread/thread/b851adcc5cc92170?hl=en
[26/01/2011 21:18:56] Brian Osman: bye Tony
[26/01/2011 21:19:05] Mike Scott: Bye Brian, I guess you are just starting work now!
[26/01/2011 21:19:08] Mohinder Khosla: Bye everyone again
[26/01/2011 21:19:18] weeknighttesting: If anyone has any ideas for the next session please put yourself forward as a facilitator or even just suggest your idea to Mike, Sharath or Tony
[26/01/2011 21:19:28] Brian Osman: @Mike – yep its bright and early morning
[26/01/2011 21:19:58] Mike Scott: Dull gray night here in UK. Have a noice day
[26/01/2011 21:20:04] weeknighttesting: I’m going to call it a night aswell, thanks everyone for joining in, was good fun
[26/01/2011 21:20:16] weeknighttesting: though I’d rather have participated if I’m honest
[26/01/2011 21:20:34] weeknighttesting: Idea’s for the next session would be appreciated
[26/01/2011 21:20:46] Brian Osman: @Mike – thanks!
[26/01/2011 21:21:00] Mike Scott: Thanks for facilitating Darren. Great session. Really tough to keep it all going. I think you deserve a beer now.
[26/01/2011 21:21:02] sharath: How abt a test puzzle?
[26/01/2011 21:21:49] weeknighttesting: could be good
[26/01/2011 21:21:52] Mike Scott: Ideas for sessions and volunteer facilitators for next session in 2 weeks time?
[26/01/2011 21:22:28] weeknighttesting: I think I wont be facilitating for some time, it’s hard work
[26/01/2011 21:22:35] sharath: hmmm
[26/01/2011 21:22:37] weeknighttesting: hard to keep up with the chat
[26/01/2011 21:22:51] sharath: very true, I for a change liked being a tester
[26/01/2011 21:23:03] sharath: and not a facilitator
[26/01/2011 21:23:11] weeknighttesting: [26 January 2011 21:22] sharath:
<<< very true, I for a change liked being a tester
and not a facilitator:)
[26/01/2011 21:23:12] Mike Scott: You did a great job and set youself a hard task by scheduling sessions
[26/01/2011 21:23:17] sharath: I will get a test puzzle for the next WNT session
[26/01/2011 21:23:24] weeknighttesting: Sharath
[26/01/2011 21:23:35] weeknighttesting: I dunno but we did a challenge in our work
[26/01/2011 21:23:39] sharath: [26 January 2011 21:23] Mike Scott:
<<< You did a great job and set youself a hard task by scheduling sessions
[26/01/2011 21:23:41] weeknighttesting: which was a textual scenario
[26/01/2011 21:23:44] weeknighttesting: let me link you
[26/01/2011 21:24:04] weeknighttesting: http://www.bettertesting.co.uk/content/?p=395 (challenge)
[26/01/2011 21:24:08] Lisa Crispin: just back to say, Darren, you did a great job and I liked that it was an unusual challenge
- wave [↩]